Tactless in Vancouver
Posted January 4th, 2009 in Real Estate, Sharing the Experience | 
We Get Comments
Capadocia, Turkey
The premise of this blog is to engage conversations with forthright individuals who wish to share ideas and opinions about real estate, neighborhoods and people.
YatterMatters operates on the internet as privately funded forum for the purpose of providing real estate related information with an invitation to comment. Unfortunately by it’s nature, it is a construct that invariably attracts certain elements of the world’s public. Amongst those, are they who come here anonymously, seeking to engage in a manner that is dissenting and adversarial.
Example
“Possibly, to those who don’t already own real estate, or derive their income from peddling it, prices dropping to levels that working calss (note: spelling not corrected)might be able to afford some day isn’t bad news?
Ever thought from this perspective or are you too blinded by your own greed?” [Emphasis mine]
Philosophy
The anonymous commentator named DoDo1975 recently chose to leave this message in response to a post on Vancouver’s Average prices. As is normal practice, when this blog gets a readily untraceable comment it is deleted. As such it will not appear on that post, but for the exception of this discussion it serves a purpose.
Time
Forensic searching for an anonymous commentators is time consuming and holds little interest. Simply, there are more urgent things to accomplish. Without reason, these statements appear arrogant, but the rationale for the administrative control of who says what on this blog is founded in the following belief – the web is an ugly place where a lot of strange undesired things happen and where unattributable words once stated, never disappear from this blog.
Noted as a pre-alert in the About page of this blog is the advisement to those wish come here to rant will be dismissed.
The Comment
There is great empathy for those who for what ever reason, do not or cannot own real estate. Owing your home and land is a worthy attribute. The essence of a Realtor is to provide to the best of their legally authorized capability assistance to those who seek to own real estate. There are however, limitations that preclude achieving that goal. What requires understanding is that not being able to afford real estate is not a new paradigm.
The pattern that governs ownership of a Vancouver home is one that has existed since the first cave was inhabited by man. The constant, then as now, is that there was never a guarantee that you would ever be able to own your own cave. Presumed, is that then you had to fight and possibly kill in order to have your cave. Alternatively, you had to move to another neighborhood and find another cave that per your ability, was attainable. The other choice was to simply reach an agreement with your fellow Neanderthal to supply the wood for the fire or hunt for meat to eat in an exchange for being able to share the cave – the earliest form of rent. The path to ownership was as brutal then as it is now and includes no guarantees!
Reflecting, had DoDo1975 shared an opinion saying “prices dropping to levels that the working class might afford isn’t bad news”, is in keeping as an opinion contrary to the author saying “the start of 2009 will put a smile on the faces of many Sellers”. With that approach a conversation might have ensued. Instead, DoDo1975 chose to bare fists, saying; “are you too blinded by your own greed?”
It’s In The Knowing
DoDo1975, for future reference in all your dealings reflect on these words from Isaac Newton – Tact is the knack of making a point without making an enemy.
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Larry
Larry, you touched a nerve:
A couple of years ago I read a column in one of the local free newspapers. It was a 40/50-something guy who described the situation of his various friends something like this: Through an accident of timing of birth, many of his older friends had gotten rich by buying real estate a decade or more ago, while most of his younger friends basically had no hope of owning a Vancouver home outright in the foreseeable future.
I can understand the bitterness that I read in the anonymous comment you got. There’s great inequity here has nothing to do with a fight (whether “brutal” or “fair” or whatever adjective you could pick), and everything to do with luck of timing: Getting in before the boom.
Bonnie Brown, a massage therapist who was hired by Google when it had 40 employees, retired after five years at Google as a multi millionaire because of stock options (New York Times). This lady probably isn’t the best massage therapist in the world, nor the one who has worked the hardest, or in any other way distinguish herself from her colleagues, but she’s probably the richest (former) massage therapist in the world. She took a small chance at one point when Google was an unknown entity, she recognized it as a good thing and hung in there for a few more years.
I, personally, don’t give much of a hoot. Because I don’t share this next value of yours:
Meh, I say.
I hear this stuff all the time. People think of money in two completely different ways: There’s regular money which has a value, and then there’s real estate money which has a value as well, but it also has a certain glow, an awe around it, there’s a sense of hope and dreams in the air that makes people ignore the nominal value of the money.
Would most people borrow a couple hundred thousand dollars and invest in a single stock? Never. Yet people look at you strange if you don’t share their desire to make the same kind of giant loan in order to invest in real estate.
It is this culture of home ownership for nearly any price that has taken real estate prices to such ridiculous heights around here and many other places. If that’s how you want to invest your money, fine. But it’s not a more worthy investment than any other.
And for those who think it is more worthy, and that’s why they’re buying real estate at almost any price: You are paying dearly for that feeling of worthiness, for that glow, that sense of hope and dreams in the air.
I agree with your point, Larry. Being tactful wins over more people!
Jan –
Somebody said we are born equal. I’m certain that is not true. A more pragmatic view might be that within weeks of conception we as individuals, are in succession, products of our environment, education, experience, community and fortune.
These influences and a multitude of other factors dynamically affect each day of our lives moulding the person we are. It would be reasonable to imply that these influences affect our decisions in relationships, our personal and spiritual well being and our financial wealth.
Your story of the 40/50 guy and the Google lady are the public “success” stories. They were as you suggest, lucky. Of course, being lucky has a lot to do with turning up. Were they more lucky than the guy buying a lotto ticket – probably not. The result of either venture, is that there are few winners and many losers. Regardless of what position you hold in any field of endevour, if you are not in the game, you cannot expect to win and sadly, even when in the game, there is no guarantee of success. Losing is not fun, losing large is brutal!
While the post struck your nerve, I think you have over looked its essence.
Regardless of whether you perceive yourself are a winner, a loser, a wise investor of worthy things or just someone who feels the culture of real estate is responsible for increased prices, what should not be lost in that turmoil is the ability and character to initiate and maintain a discussion that is civil.
Shouting, name calling, or personal attacks never encourage reasoned discourse. People come to this blog with expectations. They hope for an exchange of reason from which both parties to the discussion and those who lurk in the nether regions of the web, leave with more than that with which they came. Ultimately, learning is the objective of this blog. Oh! – We try to have fun too!
All those who comment need comfort in knowing that while keeping in mind the above provisos, they can say what they want when they want and not fear slag from anonymous DoDo1975s.
Finally – Jan, it is not the intent to lessen the points you have made. They are valid and I think the RE Culture issue is a most interesting topic in need of further discussion. Reflecting on your last paragraphs I too am wondering if what you suggest is real. Did the “culture” actually affect prices and is there more than speculation and cocktail chatter to validate the idea. I invite you to expand on this should you feel inclined. I’m sure others will chime in.
For those viewing this post, do you feel there is a RE Culture as noted by Jan, that actually influenced the past price increases in Vancouver homes? Is there a cultirue now working in the opposite vein?
Raul,
parents always impressed on me that “civility costs nothing, but is more valuable than gold”
Jan says it is RE Culture and DoDo says it’s realtor greed. I tend to agree with both to certain extents and it’s certainly no reason to censor him or anyone else from your blog. It’s your sandbox, but I personally think you need a thicker skin and you need to give more credit to the rest of us to *see* trolling posts and have us value their contribution accordingly.
Ray,
Enlighten me. Where would you have the slippery slope begin?
Re: The skin. It is quite thick thank you. It’s a characteristic of a long career in Real Estate.
Not condoned in the sandbox is a wavering from common civility and tact. There is no need to be otherwise.
A comment that IMO falls into that catagory is dispensed, regardless of the brilliance imbued. Note: Refused on principle, is editing of any comment. It either tows a civil line or its gone.
Reflect on this as you choose, but I do not require assistance from “the rest” in detemining when that line has been crossed. As noted in the About page there are other sandboxes that welcome that form of play. DoDo1975 can go there.
It’s unfortunate, for there are many who have great wisdoms. Wisdoms beyond mine that should be shared and would be welcomed under those conditions.
It’s sad that they choose to color their brilliance with unnecessary inflammatory dispersions.
Having cleared the air. Would you care to engage?
Do you think Jan’s idea of RE Culture has influenced previous prices and do you think that such a culture if it exists will have an effect on the down market?